Assault tactics in Assualt Squad

[CzaD]

What do you think about all AA guns: like flak 38, PKP, Maxon, Oerlikon being removed from normal buy menu and given to the 3 hero points mech. units to tow them. That would make them more attractive to buy but will limit the heavy 20mm gun spam and open more room for infantry tactics.

[Retia Adolf]

You're still missing the point. No matter how much you like to say riflemen are useless, it doesn't change that you get much the same summary effect by saturating with riflemen and MGs as you do by saturating with SMGs and MGs. So essentially, everything is overshadowed by the MG.

Also, nobody is twisting your words.

As for playing the mod - why? Will it change vanilla AS? No. I know what you were trying to do -> saying that infantry combat is significantly better in a mod by bringing poor reasoning of how infantry combat in vanilla AS sucks eg you only need SMG and MG and riflemen are pointless.

There is no contextual problem. I singled out a portion of your post instead of addressing the whole.

[Ritterlichvon86]

I'm happy with Riflemen as they are. They provide covering fire for me, SMGs and MGs flank. Yeah, I use MGs offensively, the range is awesome, use it and they cannot even fire back at it. If they're behind sandbags it's even easier.

About the 20mm - I think they're just fine. If anything, a 20mm is worth 1 hero point (180 to 200mp). Whenever I get to see one on the field, there's an easy counter to it. The enemy is now 150mp behind you. You don't need to counter it immediatly, if you deny it targets it's working in your favour. Send a Squad to the other flank. I won't even start telling you about the countless ways to kill them if they're spammed. Any howitzer based tank is worth two 20mm statics mp-wise , so if they start spamming those, go for it. And take some infantry with you while you're at it. *shakes head*

[CzaD]

No matter how much you like to say riflemen are useless, it doesn't change that you get much the same summary effect by saturating with riflemen and MGs as you do by saturating with SMGs and MGs. So essentially, everything is overshadowed by the MG.

We heard this simplistic idea way too many times. Things are a little bit more complex than that. In spite of the fact that you have already admitted that a fight in urban areas is a completely different matter, you still keep on saying that rifles and MG has "the same summary effect".

But urban areas are not the exception. With a little skill and good infantry mixing you can assault line of sandbags on maps like Westland too. You can get pretty close by crawling and then you can pop some smoke to get within the SMG effective range. Send some cheap cannon fodder forward (if I don't have recruits I use regular rifles) which will absorb enemy bullets and whilst you can return fire with your SMGs and MGs. Using just rifles and MG will not only give a different summary effect but also will not allow you perform such an assault: rifles don't have smoke nades and they have much inferior fire superiority at medium range.

What you are writing about is a boring, passive, defensive use and composition of infantry squads. A rifleman is hardly an assault unit in AS. All you can do with them is spam sandbags everywhere, which is, how you like to describe it, mechanical. I am surprised that the difference between heavy riflemen use and heavy SMG use is still not apparent to you.

Going back to Ty's mod, riflemen are crucial at creating an effective base of fire for your assault as a MG alone is not not enough. MGs are simply not as stupidly OP as in AS.

[CzaD]

Well, I think that 20mm were a bit rare and they were not usually used in an offensive role. 20mm in AS act like HMGs upgrades. So, for example, giving flak 38 to mech paratroopers (it can be towed by them) will make them the gun rare and they will definitely make the mech. paratroopers a lot more interesting.

[Retia Adolf]

What you are writing about is a boring, passive, defensive use and composition of infantry squads. A rifleman is hardly an assault unit in AS. All you can do with them is spam sandbags everywhere, which is, how you like to describe it, mechanical. I am surprised that the difference between heavy riflemen use and heavy SMG use is still not apparent to you.

An SMG soldier is hardly a real assault unit either. They are fine for defending in urban environments and slightly better at assaulting at the cost of being overall worse defenders compared to riflemen. So yes, the summary effect is same. It's not like riflemen fall on their face trying to assault, it's pretty funny to leapfrog with sandbags but it works.

You also don't take into account the differences of various riflemen. For instance USA has absolutely brilliant riflemen which overshadow the mediocre SMG troops easily.

Take note of the term, summary effect. By this I mean a summary of both defensive and offensive abilities. Yes SMGs have better offensive capability but at the cost of worse defensive capability.
Besides MG alone isn't enough in vanilla AS either even if it is accurate, because of suppression. At long engagement distance you're in for a bad day if you have SMGs supporting him.

[CzaD]

An SMG soldier is hardly a real assault unit either. They are fine for defending in urban environments and slightly better at assaulting at the cost of being overall worse defenders compared to riflemen. So yes, the summary effect is same. It's not like riflemen fall on their face trying to assault, it's pretty funny to leapfrog with sandbags but it works.

You also don't take into account the differences of various riflemen. For instance USA has absolutely brilliant riflemen which overshadow the mediocre SMG troops easily.

Take note of the term, summary effect. By this I mean a summary of both defensive and offensive abilities. Yes SMGs have better offensive capability but at the cost of worse defensive capability.
Besides MG alone isn't enough in vanilla AS either even if it is accurate, because of suppression. At long engagement distance you're in for a bad day if you have SMGs supporting him.

You say Garand, I say PPSH.

SMGs are good at defending and attacking in an urban area.

And if attack is not a good defence enough for you, all you need a spotters (cheap infantry will do) and well positioned LMGs.

[Retia Adolf]

PPSh is used by Soviet Union. USA has Thompson SMG.

[CzaD]

And Germany has MP40. The point is... ?

[Retia Adolf]

The point is that the only argumentation you know is red herring.

I've used that phrase a lot today. I am starting to take a liking to it.