Those Forgotten Units

[awag123]

I've played quite a lot of Men of War: Assault Squad and vanilla Men of War only to notice the same thing. The game offers a huge amount of various units to use yet there seems to be some units that remain untouched; units that you only see relatively new players using because they don't know any better. What I want to discuss is if any of these units actually have merit however situational that use might be. My list of forgotten units is as follows:

Axis:
PzKpfw I Ausf. B
SdKfz 232
Luchs
Flakpanzer
Jagpanzer IV
Brandenburg
Faljimjagers

Allieds:
101st airborn
Marines
Chaffee
Calliope
Willys AT
Wolverine
Zippo
Jumbo

Both:
Flamethrower
Officer

Many of these units usually serve a redundant purpose with a much more fashionable unit. Another question I would be interested in watching people discuss would be why one unit is so much more popular than the other though they serve similar tasks. My list of redundant units is as follows.

Stuart vs. Chaffee
Hellcat vs. Wolverine
PzKpfw I Ausf. B vs. sdKfz 22
sdKfz 232 vs. sdKfz 222 vs. Luchs vs. Flakpanzer
Hertzer vs. Stug
Panther vs. Tiger

I would just like to add that I LOVE the ability to choose from a whole slew of units, even though I always pick the same ones.

[Crni vuk]

I still use the flamethrower a lot in urban maps that is. Or if there are enemies in buildings. Its very effective that way.

On the other side I think sice the prices for units are a lot different compared to MoW we see of course less units. I mean before going with the Jagdpanzer IV you simply wait a bit more and get a Jagdpanther for example. Thats always the case for me at least.

[GrauWolf]

I oftenly use all of those Axis units except the 232, the PzI does a way better job and the Brandeburgers that are a awful extra-point unit in my humble opinion.

The variety of unit has a reason, maybe a 232 and a PzI seem equal but the are very different in armament armor and speed with the PzI being better for urban, hull down and heavy fire places and the 232 being much more mobile.

Another example is the variety of 20mm armed units, the 222 is very mobile and can tow units but its 15mm armor is not as tough as the Luchs 30mm that CAN take punishment from low caliber canons and automatic canons they serve very different purposes and finally the Flakpanzer with its paper thin armor from the PzI hull has one very imporpant feature that notmany players now, its 20mm canon has a way faster rate of fire and can fire for more prolonged times than the Luchs and 222 that makes it an extremely effective gun for destroying buildings and in hull down positions it can be a tough nut to crack as the turret is easily repairable and hard to destroy. The 232 in my opinion is senseless but I use it when I have no points and really need a 20 mm canon right away.

[Ossian]

Use chaffe almost every game I play as US. They have a powerful gun, crazy fast, very low profile good for hiding behind shallow hills/buildings. Excellent unit.

[awag123]

In regards to the Chaffe comment: do you think that the bigger gun of the chaffe makes up for the slightly thinner frontal armor and a relode time twice as long as the stuart's? I find that light tanks are used 90% of the time against infantry where a quicker firing gun is invaluable.

And in regards to the tip about the Flakpanzer: That tip is exactly the reason I made this post. You rarely find out about such things, for instance I didn't know officers could call in artillery till yesterday.

[Sigurdbro]

A for US units;

Zippo is great to call in when you clearly have the upper hand and your enemy is stuffing his squads into buildings or in very tree/bush heavy locations. If used carefully it can be a good asset, but mostly i use it as a throwawayhavefun kinda thing. Usually a single flamethrowerinfantry can get to the house and set it on fire, but sometimes you just need the Zippo

Willy AT i will only buy if the game has very high ressource settings and i am desperate to kill some enemy panzer bugging me. My friend bought one very early in a 6vs6 glubinka one day managed to surprise a panzer IV or something thinking it was safe close to the enemy spawn approaches and kaboom. They have clearly their use.

Wolverine i use occasionally when i am desperate to get something to counter a enemy medium tank, but i have had most success using Hellcat, just have to be very carefull. Looking at the stats Hellcat have a better gun, doing just a little more damage where Wolverine have quite a boost in armor. But in many situations it might not differ whether you are in hellcat or wolverine, your armor will be penetrated. I dont know, have to try it some more.

Calliope i use every time we play with custom high ressources. Its very destructive against enemy infantry and if he decides he wanna spam Kingtigers you gotta destroy his infantry in order to let you own infantry have some room to work on. If you are lucky (or actually often) you spot an enemy reinforcing and his group just get splattered altogether. This is a very important asset for US when ressource settings are custom and very high, in my opinion.

Jumbo is great, its a solid unit if the gamesettings is balanced. If the settings is crazy high the other team will counter it easy with a more heavy tank. It migh be effective as a bait aswell. Bait lets say a Jagdpanther so he is busy shooting your frontal armor while u act stupid in your Jumbo and he is exposing his side armor to your Slugger

[Evilsausage]

I love the Chaffe I use it alot, great unit for speeding up to the enemy and fire of a shot.
Also use the Jumbo, SdKfz 232 and the luchs to some extent.

But yeah thare are some units that very rarely gets used, but it can be nice to buy them for fun from time to time. Like the goliath for example.

Also something needs to be done about the Hero unit Infantries...I almost never ever get them.
Take the Marines as an example, overall they are only slight better then an Assault squad + an Mg. Total value of em might be between 150-200 points, if you would set a price of em in MP.
Now one single M8 Howitzer is probably worth 200-250 MP. And you can choose to buy either 2 of those or 1 marine squad for the same price. I wonder what people will pick...
Same goes for german side, normaly better to spend points on Veteran snipers and a V Tiger.
Instead of buying Brandenburgers, fallschirmsjaegers etc...

[clench]

I like the Brandenburgers, they're much better than the stosstrup or fallscrim if only because they're so cheap. I only get them when I'm doing well and went with the veteran tiger. They have good weapon skills and that's what matters the most. They're good for doing rambo missions, I'll usually use the MG they come with to cover someplace and hold the rest of the squad back and try to flank with them one at a time. There is usually no shortage of equipment on the battlefield to get them dealing some serious damage behind enemy lines.

[Ric313]

i kind of wish the special units were activated with the special unit menu and then bought with MP because i hardly ever consider them.

but i trust the devs with the choices they've made in regards to the special units.

[triumph]

Many of these units usually serve a redundant purpose with a much more fashionable unit. Another question I would be interested in watching people discuss would be why one unit is so much more popular than the other though they serve similar tasks. My list of redundant units is as follows.

Stuart vs. Chaffee
Hellcat vs. Wolverine
PzKpfw I Ausf. B vs. sdKfz 22
sdKfz 232 vs. sdKfz 222 vs. Luchs vs. Flakpanzer
Hertzer vs. Stug
Panther vs. Tiger

Stuart will destroy all low tier units except the p3+skirts and the puma in which case you want the chaffe as your early game tank. The lee is an option but that thing tracked is dooooomed and the bigger the map the worse the situation for it. So the chaffee remains as the only thing that comes out around the same time as the puma/p3jskirts and it does well. Auto cannon is not an issue when you have 130 range.


Your compairison should be Stuart vs M8 Greyhound as they both perform the same function, the stuart costs 20 more mp, and the stuart does everything better(like eating auto cannon rounds) with the exception of some speed.

The wolverine has armor but no real anti inf. It can actually withstand a fire fight with an H or a Stug when at max range. It doesn't always work out that way but it's a safe choice for one who can't afford a 76w or needs to fill that gap with infantry/halftrack.
After the tank patch the hellcat is seeing a bunch of unwarranted durability at ranges that should have it exploding. This is making it more viable than it should be for its price and abundance. It should be shattering more often.

Hetzer - amazing hull down. Amazing anti inf.
Stug just has amazing armor in the front and can withstand a beating until the 76 comes into play. And it's one of the few saving graces vs RUS

The tiger is serving as a pusher tank. You can get one quickly if you're ahead to make a dramatic change to the flow of the game. tiger feels like something you will be advancing with.
The Panther is an expensive main battle tank and it's going to be facing other armor as it's primary concern. The same goes for the Jagpanzer IV except this thing has a low profile but can't turn or else it could end up screwed. You get three good choices around the same area all with specific ups and downs. There is nothing really confusing here.

101ab - a pushing point power. If you want to go 105 you can call two m8's and these guys to have a good mid game while you save for something like a 76w, a second hellcat/wolv, or a jumbo or slugger. Or you could just pull in an m5 with the halfy.

Marines - free pushing power and close range punishment for your early game allowing you to save for whatever armor you need. ANd you can still save for double 76 if you use these with an m8.

Calliope - It destroys light vehicles and decimates all inf and at guns. What is there to not love about it besides the fact that your dice roll for a vehicle kill is a lot less likely than other factions. You have the coverage to decimate any infantry or at least deny repairs.

Jumbo - Rapes everything that costs less than it except the nazhorn and it can still rape that thing. Best pusher in the game. Tiger won't kill it from the front.

Zippo - Currently comes in too late and costs too much to be the early/mid game pusher power that USA needs.

P1 tankett - should never be bought

Luchs - solid auto cannon support for the late game
Flakpanzer - high rate of fire iirc. Still dunno why the game needs it though.

Branden - They don't really solve germanys issues at the moment. the mg-34 is nice.
Fal's are a perfect call for someone who is banking to tiger or better and they are my most called next to the vet sniper.

Flamer - You'll see them more on maps with a lot of urban combat. They're also nice on fields for destroying the mid and burning away enemy cover. Suburb 2 comes to mind.

Officer just doesn't give enough sight with its binocs extending to 150m. The mines and flare gun are a nice touch but just not practical. Its binocs need an LOS buff of 10-30m.