Heroic point issues & scout idea (m8 discussion)

[triumph]

Yeah they're really throwing in new units all over the place here. There have been requests for that stuff like the mortar track before and other m8 changes too. Some sort of armored unit for 1-3 points for each faction would be pretty awesome. However what i'm throwing out here fits the scout theme and wouldn't require new models or any great artist time.

l2p? I've pretty much found out how to exploit the hell out of the m8. Just because it got a slight ROF reduction doesn't mean it isn't brutal when used well or in masses by a good team.

Difference between getting an m8 and the jagd is the jagd is a strategic choice you made. You sacrificed a bunch of time, CP and additional MP compared to a standard bet like a tiger or a panther.
The m8 just rolls in for free and can be easily massed for a faction that already has good pushing power early on and has 3 great mid/late game come back options that destroy armor if skill is applied.

And ya know there is a certain faction that was well balanced before open that didn't have any super early game powers or a sniper. You know what the other factions could do. And you know how insane USA was before. At this point you're just trolling.

[baron]

Except you're the one having massive difficulty playing against the M8 and I'm not?
you say its a massive imbalance and I say its a strong early unit but it can be handled and fits in with the power curve of the US vs germany.

you claim the M8 can stun-lock heavier tanks, but then dismiss the pz4-e, which has the exact same capabilities but is more maneuverable and has an MG and can't be de-crewed by a mortar.

then you claim people can just bring up loads of them, good they wasted their hero points, now bide your time and come back with someone far superior.
Often I'll break a hellcat out over a sherman for that extra range, same applies to the german side, grab a stug and HE those M8s.
set your games to 250 points if you need to, it really allows the german power curve to work.

and it takes somewhere around 8-10 mins to get 5 M8s out and up to the front line, you're saying you can't get a counter up in 8-10 mins?

from the information and severity of the problem you portray it seems "L2P" would apply.
unless you're blowing the problem out of proportion.

[JimHatama]

Stug = 500 cp, m8 = 1mp ?

[triumph]

Except you're the one having massive difficulty playing against the M8 and I'm not?
you say its a massive imbalance and I say its a strong early unit but it can be handled and fits in with the power curve of the US vs germany.

you claim the M8 can stun-lock heavier tanks, but then dismiss the pz4-e, which has the exact same capabilities but is more maneuverable and has an MG and can't be de-crewed by a mortar.

then you claim people can just bring up loads of them, good they wasted their hero points, now bide your time and come back with someone far superior.
Often I'll break a hellcat out over a sherman for that extra range, same applies to the german side, grab a stug and HE those M8s.
set your games to 250 points if you need to, it really allows the german power curve to work.

and it takes somewhere around 8-10 mins to get 5 M8s out and up to the front line, you're saying you can't get a counter up in 8-10 mins?

from the information and severity of the problem you portray it seems "L2P" would apply.
unless you're blowing the problem out of proportion.

If your theory craft worked I would have expected to see my m8's get sniped by bullets that work like this. and then I would go wow that countered me lemme go try that too. But they don't work that way and the guys I play with when i consider balance don't make useless units to sabotage their advantage.

MORTARS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! They have 110 range and cost enough to deny Ger a tank. If you do not have a tank enjoy someone rolling over the mortar with A. A halftrack. B. A stuart C. a Chaffe, or D something else because they're making fun of you.

M8's don't fall too easily to AP shells. And besides, recrewing only costs you tank crewmen. Switching to HE is suicide. Last time I checked p4's, besides the H, get eaten by AP rounds. And the H costs more than a hetzer so GG your MG's and cover bags are destroyed and maybe even your sniper if you're dumb enough to position him in a weird way since he doesn't fire over buildings.

Your argument would work if the m8 was something you purchased with MP because that choice would slow other things being called in.
edit: Maybe a free m20 car would be better? Lets price the m8 at 275? 300? Looky, USA's early game is slowed down but they can still go sniper hunting or have a funky AT ambusher. Cool, now I need good positioning to score additional kills and i need to manage something without it stopping or else it would actually get sniped or focused by an MG due to having 90ish range. And it only counters SOME early game options like P1's by using direct control skillage and it would still help pushes vs inf behind cover.

But it's pretty much free and you can get at least 3 of them and still call in 76's or if you go and be a total zealot early on with your HP's you just get the 105 which is a decent tank disabler.

Going Hetzer or better means you get to be gang banged by a usa light vehicle. So if germany lost the opening fight they're in deeper **** than before or if they won now USA gets to push while you're banking.

You mention the 500? sherman like its a real option. lol

Hellcat, that's a gamble but if some one is switching to HE they deserve to get raped. Maybe the sniper will snipe out the crew? You're not too busy direct controling a 300+ investment right? It only takes repositioning the sniper and sitting there and then firing and doing it all over again right? Or will my mortar kill decrew hellcat?

[alex0809]

Imho the M8 simply has to be dumbed down. Destroying Panzer I? Alright, i can accept that. Damaging/Stunning Panzer II? Okay, sounds fairly realistic. Stunning Panzer III? Well, they werent exactly walls of steel... Stunning Panzer IV H? Hm, alright there might have been a shock when a 75mm HE shell hit it in rl. Stunning a TIGER?!? Uhm.. I... dont.. think thats so plausible is it?

[baron]

Firstly triumph, I'll put money on me having played more games of MoW then you, secondly you're the one whining about its so hard boohoo.
I'm telling you that I don't have these problems at all yet, yes the US is stronger in the beginning, but you can mitigate that advantage until the germans have their better equipment come in.

The problem is YOURS since you're the one getting crushed when playing as germans and I and others are not.
if it was this huge big problem that you keep bleating about then EVERYONE WOULD BE HAVING IT.

[Jolon]

Actually, lots of people complain about the M8. Its sort of a subject dominating the forums at the moment, too.

I've seen triumph play, and he's certainly competent. Your criticisms just come across as rude and ignorant- certainly the M8 is, if not overpowered, pushing the envelope of what constitutes "aggressively costed."

What I find interesting is that historically it managed 3-6 shots a minute. A recent nerf saw it down to merely one shot every ten seconds, putting it in line with the upper range of that number.

Perhaps 15 seconds for four shots a minute would make it less egregious to people? Certainly, it would still be a useful unit.

[baron]

2 threads where the dominat 'against' posters are triumph and jimhatama isn't exactly dominating.

as for commenting on his skill, I can only make inferences based on what he says.
he says he has no way to counter it, I say I have a way and that its supposed to be a powerful early unit anyway, he dismisses what I say and goes back to whining, there is really only 1 conclusion you can come to from that discourse.
He was seriously complaining in one of the threads recently that in the 10 or so mins it takes to get 5 M8s up, he couldn't come up with a counter.


I think he's just been beat by US teams a few times and is blowing his experience playing against M8s all out of proportion.

[triumph]

Firstly triumph, I'll put money on me having played more games of MoW then you, secondly you're the one whining about its so hard boohoo.
I'm telling you that I don't have these problems at all yet, yes the US is stronger in the beginning, but you can mitigate that advantage until the germans have their better equipment come in.

The problem is YOURS since you're the one getting crushed when playing as germans and I and others are not.
if it was this huge big problem that you keep bleating about then EVERYONE WOULD BE HAVING IT.

Anyone can game spam and destroy idiots. But play even two games against people who know the game inside and out and you might just end up learning more than 1000 wins against people who can't dress themselves in the morning.

Guess what? This meta game is not mow's meta. So certain tricks and skills and map knowledge might still apply but the small things all add up to a huge difference.

I'm actually not getting crushed but there is a ton of bull that can make anyone want to facepalm.
I can get hit by it and I can throw it back at other players even worse because I see how exploitable it is and play against great people. If i wasn't playing at such a level i wouldn't be able to provide such graphic detail. Keep the children's eyes averted from this forum!

There is rarely cut throat competitive fun in this game and when players aren't trying to perfect their play they don't try to abuse and exploit the hell out of everything which is best for a game.
Why isn't this abused? Sadly, everyone sucks at this game and there are a select few that aren't an everyone but there are too many everyones for them to get a great game. It's an epic tragedy.

oh and 3v3 you can have 6 m8s up fairly quickly

[CzaD]

Give the German faction this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmzN67YC0oo

and nobody will complain about M8 being OP. But then will the USA have the same chance to push in the early game?

Anyway I like the gun, and I often use it when I play GSM. It is great to support infantry and has a nice protective plate, unlike M8.