Heroic point issues & scout idea (m8 discussion)

[triumph]

Currently in the USA vs Germany match up there are some very powerful Heroic options and some Heroic options that should never be used. With some minor tweaks that state of the game can be improved dramatically.
Perhaps with one big change we can see the return of interesting infantry that are like the beloved scout of MOW but refit to Assault Squads more interesting game play through the heroic point system for each faction.

The 1 pointer. The M8 and a comparison to the Vet Sniper

Currently the m8 is imbalanced. It’s overpowered and easily abused without much effort.

With effort it can be timed to stun tanks, destroy any sort of infantry defense, kill snipers with ease, destroy cover, kill light vehicles, and fight off costly early game AT guns. And it comes with two air borne so you can swap them for a tank crew and be in a better position.

It’s pretty much a free 300mp super unit for free that can be hidden behind objects and even if decrewed it still needs to be destroyed. To direct control it just takes a good ten count and a control group to get off quick slick shots that can do damage and destroy cover even if they miss.

A Vet Sniper if I under stand correctly is a 160mp unit. Requires direct line of sight. Requires long term direct control. It has 100 range. Some times requires you to manually reload. And when not in cover sticks out like a sore thumb. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great unit. In the internal the other match ups showed that. But this unit is hard countered by the m8 and clearly isn’t as easy to use. While I don’t want snipers to be easy to master it’s just not a good situation in the US v Ger match up.

What would make the early game situation more fair? Either a sniper war which is already present in Ger vs Soviets or something unique. I propose giving the USA an officer call in but without the flare gun. The officer will give USA a great chance to scout and know what the enemy unit composition is. Yellow smoke can allow the USA player to gamble some inf on deploying some mines to hold a point with. And if that doesn’t seem good enough giving the officer an escort of 2-3 airborne would be a fine idea.

And if one knows where an enemy sniper is they can easily take it out with a 50cal or we might even see the scott being called in as a change in strategy.

Mass Production double 76 call in
Change from 6 heroic points to 7 Heroic points.
Currently it’s too easy to get effective early game heroic point options without sacrificing the late game.
The double 76 call means an instant come back even if someone has gone 2 m8 and marines or some similar 1-3 point combo for early game assaults.

Zippo Sherman
Decrease initial call in time by 2 or 1 mins. If still not viable decrease Heroic point cost from 4 to 3.
Currently the Zippo meets a battlefield littered with counters making it nearly useless. This is the only USA heroic purchase that is underpowered and it deserves to be viable.

Stoss
Why is the halftrack still gimped? The Auto Cannon sticks up in the air after any repositioning. It’s foolish to keep the PG’s inside it. The V fire area makes it so it can be easily countered by what it should be countering. It simply takes too much management for a unit that comes in during the mid game when using a tank well is more important. This unique unit needs an enhancement. Full 360 rotation would be very nice, other wise just give us a regular halftrack and a flak that can be pulled to help fortify a position.

Nebelwerfer
Thanks for the slight buff but the neb is still a huge gamble unit and not very viable at all.
I feel that cutting it down to 60 seconds may help it feel more viable.
Or perhaps giving two of them @90 seconds reload would be good for an additional heroic point.
Or maybe just lowering its current Heroic point cost by 1 would be nice.

Brandenburger

These guys are just never worth it. An infantry man with a single faust is a huge gamble and they can’t protect themselves. Also, No mass and no durability = no deal.
Either make it the smg+ panzer shrek and the rest are g43 version of a marine/anzac squad....

Or make them somewhat historically accurate as a commando squad. What does this mean?
3 specialized scout units (per heroic point) made for high endurance maneuvering. They sprint like a bat out of hell for a long period of time in order to flank the enemy and ambush in coming vehicles on larger maps or assault flags.

I would want to see this as a 1 point call in along with the following.

So what about USA?
Instead of an Officer with just 3 airborne give an Officer and a forward observer.
A guy with great stamina, camo, an smg and a smoke grenade that would call down 2
airborne that are not equipped with AT grenades or AT weapons.
So in a 3v3 if players really tried they could pop down 3 smokes to have a small infantry group get called in behind the lines. Would it be that OP? Without AT weapons it would make it a great challenge to be campy.

Other factions?
I never saw a good use for the other factions scout units. They need a buff. Also the Royal Engineers’s needed some major buff to be more useful. But that can be talked about when the time comes.

[Jolon]

I like the M8 a lot, and feel it is more in theme for America than an officer would be.

As for whether or not it is better than the vet sniper, that's hard to say. However, it is true it saw some balances in the latest patch. I think efforts to bring it in line, which are underway, are preferable to replacing it.

[Bruggemantis]

I think the m8 is indeed better than the sniper, but Germany makes up for it by having the Veteran Tiger option later on, which is a fantastic tank. America has more good options, though Germany has the best options, I think. It would be nice for them all to be usable, though.

[Evilsausage]

Both the Veteran sniper and the M8 is good. The good thing about the sniper is that hes more mobile and can also gives the germans good visability.

USA really needs the M8 vs all the Mg-42s.

[triumph]

USA really needs the m8 to track the tiger and stug too right?

[Evilsausage]

Haha that too triumph

Btw those matches where nightmareish :/

[triumph]

Most matches end up being some sort of insane. I don't hold it against anyone.

I'm surprised that no one has commented on the airborne idea. Thought that was a popular topic. Guess everyone wants AB+RR like COH lol.

[JimHatama]

all true. m8 and double sherman 76 = insane. it needs nerfing for sure

[triumph]

all true. m8 and double sherman 76 = insane. it needs nerfing for sure

Some people think it should be double wolverine and come in sooner than later
I think it should just be a tough choice to make sacrificing early game pushing power for a late game tank come back.

[baron]

I think people just need to learn to play.
so far playing as german I've had no particular trouble with the M8 that my opponent hasn't had in equal measure later in the game when I bring out a jagdpanther.

german and USA nations are NOT supposed to be played the same way and equal through the entire battle.

The momentum is supposed to shift, the USA is supposed to be stronger out of the block and the germans get to bring in better units later on.
if your tiger if getting wtfpwnt by an M8 then you suck, period.


l2p.


edit: and if you think there really is a big problem, don't balance by nerfing, be creative.
exchange the goliath [because its useless] or your 2pt brandens for a SdKfz 250/7, the 80mm mortar halftrack + SdKfz 250/7 unarmed as ammo carrier.
or replace goliath [3pts] with a SdKfz 250/8 which has an MG and the same gun as the PZIV-E so you then have your 75mm indirect fire on a mobile platform but a bit later then the M8.

but trying to get the m8 taken away and replaced with some scout crew that can't even snipe is pretty lame.