SMGs in 2.05.13 [closed]

[ShtoormoVick]

My opinion: SMGs since the last patch are useless against even semi-auto rifles at even shortest ranges, like 10-15 meters. And at range of about 30 meters two bolt-action riflemen are most likely to kill one SMG guy, which is just way beyond reason.

What are yours?

[kis12134]

This is why I use riflemen.
Not only they are more accurate, they got more range and do more damage even tho its slower than the damage the SMg does.

[Table]

I don't think 2v1 is a fair comparison. The SMGman, like the rifleman is situational. For instance, in maps such as Town, the Soviet SMGman is very points efficient. They are shortranged, and do not come with sandbags, but they are excellent with their extra AP and HE grenade, which is very useful when you aren't in an open flat terrain. Using rifleman, I often find myself wishing for that extra grenade and AT grenade ability. AT grenades are useful, not only against vehicles if somehow a vehicle is close by, but also for destroying walls, and as an extra grenade against infantry.

Though shortranged, hidden around corners or inside buildings, they can often kill several other men very quickly, which is something riflemen cannot do. Since the range difference between rifleman and smgman has increased from 15 to 20, it does mean that compared with the smgman, the rifleman has increased viability .

Btw, in your poll, what does "I don't sense much of a change with SMGs" is supposed to mean? It bears no relation to the other poll options.

What do you mean by "even semi-auto"? You make it sound as if semi-auto is the worst rifle possible.

[ShtoormoVick]

@ Table
Some people are just too busy with being so too much smart all over the place...

-"don't sense much of a change" means what is says - a person does not, for any reason whatsoever, notice any change in SMGs since the last patch.

-"even semi-auto" is there, because there are other hand-held weapons, like shotguns, which are clearly imbalanced, insta-killing everything at ranges of 20 (!!!) meters away. Use your brain before suggesting that other people are way too silly for you to bother. besides, bolt-action is not as effective at 20 meters range, as for two such riflemen to kill one SMG guy - it's for the range of 30 where it's true.

And finally, this isn't about entire inventory layout, nor about soviet SMGs exclusively - it's about very poor effectivity of SMGs, that came with this last patch. Too poor to be considered sane, I dare to say.

[Happend]

I think SMGs are still too accurate. But I don't see an option for that on the poll. So I abstain. I agree that SMGs are too weak, but my issue is with damage, not accuracy.

I don't think it would be fair to discuss SMGs in a vacuum, because they do come as part of a package. It's a given that we're discussing riflemen and SMG men. Of course their weapon is worse than the riflemen's at range. But are the AT and smoke grenades worth it? I would say yes.

Also, a semi-auto rifle would be the Garand. A shotgun is not a semi-auto rifle and it is disingenuous for you to claim it is. Your first post also doesn't make any sense even if we substitute in "semi-auto rifle" for "shotgun", expecially in light of your second post where you claim the shotgun is overpowered. If you have a problem with shotguns, I don't think calling the SMG underpowered against rifles and calling the shotgun a rifle is the right way to do it.

Besides, the shotgun is rarely used. They cost twice as much as an ordinary infantryman and can be killed just as easily. Placing them in blind spots in cover is great, but they really don't have a lot of utility, because of grenades.

[ShtoormoVick]

@Happend
You din't find such an option as "too accurate" because they didn't become any more accurate since the last patch, and this poll is about the last patch, and the changes it brought to SMGs. That's why it's called "SMGs in 2.05.13" (thought 2.05.12 would be probably more appropriate, but I chose 2.05.13 in order not to mess people's mind up too much)

Indeed, we are to discuss SMGs, and not the layout, since SMG is a weapon equipped by many, and picked up as a trophy as well.

I DID NOT CALL A SHOTGUN A SEMI-AUTO RIFLE, I listed it as "other hand-held weapons" of which shotgun was an example (one of them, you know), but you would've noticed that, IF YOU CARED TO READ. YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH READING WHAT'S WRITTEN, and you should probably do more practice in it, instead of reading in hearts.

And my first post does make sense, since it's definitely wrong, that a semi-auto rifle (not a shotgun, not an uber-silelenced-auto-pistol, not a fifty cal., not an lmg, but a fricken semi auto!!!) wins a duel against a SMG at distances of 15-20 meters, which are those exact distances, where it (a SMG) IS SUPPOSED TO PREVAIL.

Oh, and there are other semi-auto rifles, besides garand, BUT it's not relevant, nor important here.

[Norbo]

Yeah SMG:s are pretty inaccurate nowadays. But I haven't spotted any real change ingame, since these weapons have always done very little actual killing. If you kill something, you do it from a range of 25m or less; in my experience the QCB-effectiveness hasn't changed much. Beyond these ranges the role of these weapons is to suppress, and the increased range
buffs this side a bit.

[ShtoormoVick]

Yeah SMG:s are pretty inaccurate nowadays. But I haven't spotted any real change ingame, since these weapons have always done very little actual killing. If you kill something, you do it from a range of 25m or less; in my experience the QCB-effectiveness hasn't changed much. Beyond these ranges the role of these weapons is to suppress, and the increased range
buffs this side a bit.

There's definitely a grain of truth in what you say, but... remember how you could mow down three-four men in DC, as they run by? Well, now you can't, because accuracy drops every time you move your aim, and with SMGs NOW it's always - you can notice it, while shooting in DC, it's as if the gun is being "moved" by the recoil.
So NOW it got to the point, when you can unload your entire clip at a sub-elite trooper (that is if you use 30+ bullet clips, not 71) and not even kill him at rage of 25, and be sure that at range of 15-20 you'll recieve those 4-5 bullets from semi-auto, that comprise a lethal dosage, much quicker, than you'll stuff the enemy with enough SMG led to make him drop.

[kis12134]

Well, as I said before, only one solution:
Switch to riflemen.They don't have half of the fire rate, but they are much more accurate and do much damage.
And even if the SMG's would be accurate, their damage is basicly none.Even if you hit them every time with a SMG at 20m of range,you will need about 10 shots from the SMG, if not more to kill him, you need a well aimed shot from a sniper rifle and 3-4 shots from a rifle.
So the current problem is the low damage that the SMG makes
//EDIT//
The only good advantage with the Sub machine gunner right now is its AT grenade and its extra AP grenade.
The rifleman still has the sandbags, but that cannot make up for the fact that it has no way to destroy something as lightly armored as a halftrack.

[ShtoormoVick]

Well, as I said before, only one solution...

There's actually a way to overcome the recoil plague of nowadays' SMGs - shooting in short bursts.
But it's only for DC of course, and that is sad... And it takes a hell of an effort to shoot at moving targets like that, effectively that is.
It would be nice, if you could choose a firing mode for auto weapons, like short burst/long burst f.e.