M4A3 Sherman needs a buff

[rossBurglar]

They are enough. As everyone in this thread has pointed out, the Sherman beats outright the F1, beats the G at least 2 out of 3 times, and has a chance against the H. I use Shermans a lot and can't remember the last time I failed to penetrate a G at maximum range

The M4 also has a fantastic gun for its price, (going by the stats spreadsheet I got from here somewhere) with 65mm penetration at 130 range, compared to the Cromwell (38mm), the T34 76 (36, 44) and the T34 57 (68 )

The G does have a better gun (75 @ 130 range) but this is offset by the fact it has much less (effective) armour leaving them very nicely balanced

[penguofdoom]

I never said the ****ing tank can't penetrate the panzer 4's at max range but the fact that the only penetrable area is very hard to hit and not worth the risk considering your tank will most likely be destroyed on the first shot. It is true that it outright beats the F1 so instead match its price to something comparable such as the G which is priced at 400mp. The 75mm cannon only penetrates 55mm at 130 range which is what? 4mm more than the front panel of the panzer 4? The gun is only decent at HE support since its AP quality is questionable.

[Retia Adolf]

How the hell is it hard to hit when it takes up the majority of the frontal profile of the Panzer IV G. Practically any shot from 130 range that lands will either hit or bounce into a vulnerable area.

Also, you've been told exact penetration figures at 130 range and you still get them wrong. Penetration figure of 55mm is something you'll see at 150 range, not 130.

[penguofdoom]

Go into the editor, anime kid and try to see how hard it is for the Sherman to hit a target at max range, more specifically the frontal panel. At 130m ingame it penetrates 65mm. In the editor firing at center mass it took me ELEVEN shots to destroy the panzer 4 G firing in direct control shot after shot. 3 Shots hit the front panel with green penetration for crew injured. 1 Shot hit the gun to damage it. Multiple shots ringed off turret for no affect and it finally got damaged on the 11th shot. With the Ai firing it took 4 shots to destroy it. The kill shot was off the sloped panel close to the ground since it only crew injured on panel. This is saying something either about the pathetic gun of the sherman or a bugged model of a panzer that needs an update.

[penguofdoom]

Would you like me to fraps it for you in a cartoon so you can watch it Sailor Adolf?

[Ritterlichvon86]

Would you like me to fraps it for you in a cartoon so you can watch it Sailor Adolf?

Are you serious? I presume you won't be on the forums for long, but that's all in your power.

[angus725]

Would you like me to fraps it for you in a cartoon so you can watch it Sailor Adolf?

That would be good.

I think the normal sherman is fine, but the sherman 76 can get a slight price decrease.

[rossBurglar]

Go into the editor, anime kid and try to see how hard it is for the Sherman to hit a target at max range

Funny enough, I have just been doing that. I lined up 8 IVGs against 4 Sherman 4s (American) and 4 Sherman 5s (British). I fired with the IVG first from each pair, until it got a hit. If the Sherman survived the hit, then I got it to fire at the opposite IV. 4 of the M4s hit first time as did 4 of the IVs. The others took between 1 and 3 more shots to hit, seemed fairly equal number of shots for all of them. 1 M4A4 was hull destroyed, 1 crew injured, 1 M4A3 was hull damaged, 1 was crew injured, the other 4 bounced the first shot. The M4A4s got 1 turret damaged, one explosion, and 1 hull damaged on the first shots, the A3s got 1 engine damaged, 1 turret damaged and 1 hull damaged on theirs.

So thats 2/8 Shermans dead for 3/8 Panzers, and 3 Panzers were disabled

Would need to test it on a larger scale for better accuracy, but it fits with what I've experienced when playing and I really couldn't be arsed doing more. Do you expect a tank to smash one which costs 25(?) points less? Seems about right to me

[Newskenger]

As most people told their opinion, here is just another: The Sherman is fine as it IS. You should'nt compare tanks in 1:1 without reflecting to their role. The Sherman is no tank-killer (of course it can do those things and especially with a Pz4 F1/G). But it's no face-to-face answer for a Panzer IV Ausf. H. You have other options for getting rid of this tanks.

[Norbo]

I simply can't come up with any other possible explanation for behavioir like this than a prolonged state of drunkenness. Put the bottle away. Or provide us with that Fraps clip, and don't forget to add a voice commentary: I'm always open for some quality entertainment.