DCG Inconsistancies

[Nanaki]

This is a thread about inconsistancies within DCG. Primarily, this has to do with Vehicles that are 'not quite' historically accurate with deployment dates. However, inconsistancies should only be mentioned if the vehicle in question does not replace other versions that are not in-game.

Allow me to start this thread off:
The Tiger I is historically first deployed in September 23rd, 1942, near Leningrad. However, DCG lists the Tiger I as becoming available by December 1942.

The Panzer III is listed as a very common tank at 1940, however, the Panzer III was actually as rare as the Panzer IV during the Fall of France. This may not be fixable, however, if DCG does not support using different rarity counts based on availability dates.

An improper example would be mentioning that the Panzer III Ausf F (late) should be practically nonexistant at 1940 because there were only a few dozen models (compared to the more common A through Early F series). The reasoning is that, because the Ausf A through early F series are not in-game, the late Ausf F is the only replacement that can fill in for them. It would be better to just include the late Ausf F than to not include the Panzer III at all during this time period.

[jimopl]

i never notice those(Not that i would lol) but im sure they`ll fix em in the next version, dont worry

[Trog]

I for one would like to know which units I have that are not supposed to be there, not just for the nation I play but also the nation I face as well, People sometimes forget that.

Thanks Nanaki, this will be good reference, One other request might be your source of information so perhaps if any other information can be found like ideas for skins, other equipment also used ect. would be greatly appreciated.

[Kohlrabi]

I have to agree with the "sources" part in the post above.
If I have found one thing while researching, it is conflicting sources.

Exact dates are also a rather peculiar issue... especially when it comes to DCG.

Lets say that the date mentioned in the OP is correct... deployed Sept. 23 1942, near Leningrad.
Now, did that particular tank actually see combat on Sept 23, 1942, and/or exactly how many were deployed at that particular date?

What if the player is playing a campaign in southern USSR? (Stalingrad perhaps?)
Should a new theatre be created, just to avoid Tigers being available before they actually saw combat in the southern front?
Should Tiger tanks have a 2% availability during September, a 7 % availability during October, and 16% percent availability in November?

The problem is that it is nigh impossible to create a precise historical simulation, for at least three reasons:

a) The randomized setting of DCG

b) The large number of conflicting sources when it comes to WW2

c) Modding limitations - this could be either lack of code, lack of time or lack of willingness to spend huge amounts of time getting everything 100% correct... which is impossible anyway - see a) & b).

Discussion and criticism is good though - nothing in DCG is finished, and I'm pretty sure that every single one of us in the modding team have rather large (and growing) to-do lists. :typing:

[Nanaki]

In regards to the Tiger I, it sees first combat in North Africa on December first (probably where the original Tiger I deployment date comes from), and Leningrad in september.

Production of the Tiger I started in August, 25 were built each month (with it increasing until it maxed out at 104 per month).

http://www.feldgrau.com/spa501.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I#First_actions



Now, did that particular tank actually see combat on Sept 23, 1942, and/or exactly how many were deployed at that particular date?


They did see combat, however, their performance in that particular battle was absolutly miserable.

[Ulrek]

little tip btw i had to fix this with my own install as it bugged the living day lights out of me but the 3rd Div with the USAs SMGers are all armed with wrong SMGs thay should have tommys but that have grease guns which only started coming around in 44 and the troops armed with them are from 42 to 43 and all the 3rd Div is armed with them it seems theres not a tommy to be found just pointing it out


*edit* i did a little more looking around and it seems thay had a some M3s out before 44 but the M3A1 model it says came out in 44 so.... judged for yourself as far as i know thay still used mostly tommys for early war SMGs even up and after D-day so like i said judged for yourself

[Kohlrabi]

Due to lack of different models, I've used the M3A1 to represent all M3 SMG's... and my sources tell me they appeared from 1942 and onwards. The USA -will- be overhauled in the future though, and they'll probably lose a bunch of SMG's in general in the process.

[Nanaki]

I noticed that the 1940-1941 Western front has it ending at June 1st, 1941. However, historically the French had surrendered and the British had completely pulled out of Western Europe by June 25th, 1940.

[Kohlrabi]

Then don't fight a western campaign after june 25th? :)

Also, "Western Front" will have to represent Greece, Yugoslavia, Crete, Norway etc as well.

[Ulrek]

i just replaced all the early war USA troops M3 Grease Guns with tommys (the stick clip models) as i liked it better for the look but all and all SMGs in the fields and wide open spaces are as useless as can be so it matters very little in the end....

oh and i've found that SMGs are the targets of choice of your enemys one you first open fire from a ambush i had a Rezvedchiki soldier armed with a MP-40 in a amsbush with some germans along side some fodder troops and he got killed so i reloaded 2 times and he died both untill i moved the gun to another soldier and he lived so meh.... i also moved him to a few spots in the ambush line and he still died while wielding a SMG so judged for your self if you want to test the idea

[Snail]

I don't know how difficult is to make a vehicle for this game, but this Pz III F is overpowered for 1940... there were even not many Pz III E. What about making these: Pz III E, Pz 35 (t) and Pz 38 (t)?

[Nanaki]

I hardly think so. The Brits only used Cruiser tanks and Matilda tanks in that conflict, and the Matildas are indestructable against the Panzer III anyway, and the Cruiser tanks will die to the earlier Pz3's gun anyway.

Given, this might change if the French were introduced to any large degree. But right now DCG is working on the Italians, I think.