Artillery Implementation

[DemonicSpoon]

Alright. The artillery implementation ingame really doesn't work to well. Artillery fired from huge distances. It was very far away so it was difficult to actually attack...but it took some time to arrive at the target, and was rather inaccurate.

In Men of War, artillery is fairly accurate and has virtually no travel time. It's not so much used to bombard areas as it is to snipe important targets. No one, for example, bombards the area around a point before moving in. Rather, they wait for something valuable (like a tank coming into view, or a elite infantry) and then blow it apart. In this sense, they act less like "artillery" and more like long-range AT guns. Also, it brings a large element of luck to the game. I've had games where a single M114 wiped out 5+ tanks...either by taking it out directly, or disabling the treads/turret which soon resulted in its death.


I'd like to see an exception to the current range model. What if artillery came in from off the map? It could be done on a cost-per-barrage basis (you pay some points, then an artillery barrage arrives on the target a bit later). Or, it could work by purchasing the artillery piece and allowing for a barrage every so often.


In one of the Russian campaign missions (Sevestapol? I think), you can call in an airstrike for 10 reserve points...I think that system works quite well. It's not technically artillery, but the concept is the same. It couldn't be spammed, but it was very useful. That's sort of what I'm looking for.


thoughts?

[TeaSeeOh]

Yeah, I can agree with this. The way artillery is implemented is really bad in this game. For a game that has so many realistic features, this is not one of them. I've had artillery used to hit my snipers in bushes before. This is just silly. Also, the way the Katyusha is used currently is ridiculous as well. Using it to take out tanks?

Another way to change artillery implementation in this game, is to increase the range, but vastly decrease the accuracy/spread of it.

[DemonicSpoon]

Yeah, I can agree with this. The way artillery is implemented is really bad in this game. For a game that has so many realistic features, this is not one of them. I've had artillery used to hit my snipers in bushes before. This is just silly. Also, the way the Katyusha is used currently is ridiculous as well. Using it to take out tanks?

Another way to change artillery implementation in this game, is to increase the range, but vastly decrease the accuracy/spread of it.

That would just be a straight artillery nerf, since it can already hit the important parts of the map from relative safety on most maps...hell, it can shoot the entire map on some smaller ones. It would just add a greater luck factor. It wouldn't actually change the usage, it would just mean you need to get slightly luckier to one-hit a tank (but you'd still use it as a long range AT gun).

[pedro0930]

AI needs to stop leading target when firing howitzer. This often leads to ridiculous scenario where howitzer's sniping armored car moving at full speed from across the map.

[Dingdong]

I think the reasonable solution would be , you call arty and it takes some time to arrive so it isn't effective against advancing enemies.

[Maskirovka]

Totally agree with the OP. Arty in this game as-is is extremely stupid. I'm glad there's a no artillery option, but people don't bother to select it.

[kulik242]

Hi fellow artillery haters. :grin:
Ok, first the artillery can destroy a fun game it happened when someone goes arillery heavy.
The system Demonicspoon suggested sounds good, but it would be shame to get rid of the nice artillery models we have ingame.
I suggest to keep them "onboard" but dramaticaly raise their spread (more than twice) and lower AT-capabilities and cost. ...or anything that would make them price worthy but lower theirs "chirurgical strike" abilities.

One more idea: It would be great if arty and HE shells in general had more suppressing than killing effect.

[LogisticEarth]

Here's my take on how to fix Arty and make it more realistic:

Step 1: Remove direct control from howitzers and rocket artillery.
Step 2: Artillery can only be called in through area attack.
Step 3: When calling in arty, you can set how many shells it will fire in the current barrage. Consecutive shots get more accurate. This is getting more complicated but it's more realistic.

Mortars, AT guns, and field guns should all retain thier direct control ability, as they were all either direct-fire weapons or worked closely with a platoon or company. Howitzers and rocket arty, however, needed to be called in by foward observers and officers, so there was som delay. They should be used as barrage weapons instead of long range field guns.

[Walderschmidt]

I like Demonicspoon's idea.

In fact, what started out as a small idea soon grew into a big one. Please take a look at this thread and tell me what you think.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4312&p=55550#p55550 (http://www.digitalmindsoft.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4312&p=55550#p55550)

Regards, Thomas

[Walderschmidt]

Same as above, sorry for double post.

Please Delete this post.
Regards, Thomas

[Kinsbutt]

Offmap implementation would be stupid. The very nature of all units in this game, no matter how powerful, can be destroyed, would be killed by adding "offmap artillery". That's what makes some other games so frustrating; you're in their base destroying all their stuff, and the magical artillery barrage still comes in and starts killing your units.

For the most part, I think artillery is fine, if not realistic as you all are complaining. It's expensive, inaccurate, and while it can be frustrating, it needs a whole bunch of kills to pay for itself. I think decreasing the tank killing power would be the best idea, as this is the biggest "rage factor" and the thing that makes most artillery "worth it". For a hummel, without tanks,you'd have to kill 4ish snipers, 5+ SMG squads, or 3 elite infantry squads for it to pay for itself. That's a lot, especially considering it can be stolen by a light vehicle if not watched properly (which is more points).

[DemonicSpoon]

Reducing the tank-killing power would help. It's not that I think artillery is overpowered...it's just that it degrades gameplay. The biggest problem is that you are forced to bring in heavy tanks, since anything small gets one-shotted.

I still don't like it; because arty still makes support weapons more or less pointless

[FFA702]

Arty need to be less acurate,be as powerfull as a mortor against tank and cost mutch more but come in group of 3.That way , arty will be use as suport wapons to bomb zone,no unities.

I hate when i loose a scout , sniped by tose super arty. o_O