Slopped armor weak?

[Migalex]

Me and Rafo have checked and there a problem with slopped armor, they are a bit weak.
This page calculates armor with slopped: http://www.panzerworld.net/armourcalculator.html
like T-34/85 have 45mm of front upper hull at 30 degrees which makes 90. I know with the projectile trajectory it should would probaly decrease a bit, for like 80 to 90, but it wouldn t happen at short ranges and even at far ones, decrease to 75mm or something like it is in mow.
Like panther, he has 85mm, more 5mm then he should have, but even with that, it does not even reach 130 which should, it stays like 115mm....
And many other tanks like IS2... It should be up to 200mm but it seems very lower than that, and IS3 should be impenetrated from front upper hull, and its quite easily penetrated with guns over 88 calibre.
Can u tell me why this happens?
Anyone?
Thxs

[whodunnit]

you need to position your tanks so that the correct angle is applied, if for example , you are going down a hill, you will actually be presenting the armour on a sloped front at close to perpindicular.

though i do agree, sometimes it seems hard to comepete with things that jsut have straight up and thick armour, because goin downhill etc actually improves thier armour performance, and worst case scenario there armour is very thick.

[Mihsan]

Me and Rafo have checked and there a problem with slopped armor, they are a bit weak.

*bla-bla-bla*

Can u tell me why this happens?
Anyone?
Thxs

There is such think like "normalization" for blunt-head AP shells (the most common AP shells for the end of War). Read more about it here: http://www.battlefield.ru/content/categ ... 4/lang,ru/ (http://www.battlefield.ru/content/category/10/44/64/lang,ru/) (search for "IV. Basic Concept for the Armor Penetration")

P.S.: Sory for bad english :wilting:

[Migalex]

whodunnit, the tanks are really in good position.
Mihsan, mow has only those AP and HE. There aint no special ammo, with all guns and all calibres it happens same.
Its a game problem. Even if was that ammo, it would be less armor... Than like 45 with slopped gives 90 but with that ammo it would decrease alot for like 45 to 50?
I still think its a mow problem.

[Mihsan]

Mihsan, mow has only those AP and HE. There aint no special ammo, with all guns and all calibres it happens same.

Blunt-headed shell is a common AP shell (germans even not use any other standart AP ammo at all, except this one), not something special like HEAT or HWAP.

By the way: bigger and heavyer shells (122mm from IS-2 for example) have stronger effect of "normalization".


I still think its a mow problem.

There is no any problem.

[varlo]

germans did have special ap and heat rounds.

[Migalex]

But how was T-34 such a big hard deal? 45mm without sloppness its a joke for PZ III J.(Note, Im just asking really)
But do you really think wen they did the game they had that in mind? And the sloppness still have effect so it aint that shells

[readalert]

t34s armor was subsequently improved just like kv1s . Pz3 got longer 50mm gun, it did defeat the frontal armor of kv1s, so latter got additional armor plate, maybe do some reading, i did it 4 years ago when showw2 came out .

[Mihsan]

germans did have special ap and heat rounds.

We are not talking about any "special" ammo.


But how was T-34 such a big hard deal? 45mm without sloppness its a joke for PZ III J.(Note, Im just asking really)

Pz-3J have too light shell, so the normalization is also weak. IMHO: it's all OK - the russian tanks in begin of the war was a big surprise for Hittler because all his guns (except 88-mm Flak) has small shells (37-mm and 50-mm mostly). Later it was fixed by creating new german long-barrel tank 75-mm guns and T-34 lost it's supremacy - in the game we have the same situation.

By the way: when shell get normalization effect he lost some of penetration power, so 45-mm armor by sharp angle - it's not so bad anyway. And also the armor is not major part of T-34: this tank is very fast and not so hight and big, like the other tanks (check Sherman for example).


But do you really think wen they did the game they had that in mind? And the sloppness still have effect so it aint that shells

IMHO again: i think, that in game the effect of normalization was maked almost 100% right.


t34s armor was subsequently improved just like kv1s.

Yes, some tanks was have additional armor, but this was not very common. Maybe ~0-5% of all tanks has such upgrade - there is no any information about it, just some photos and texts with no any specific numbers.


Pz3 got longer 50mm gun, it did defeat the frontal armor of kv1s, so latter got additional armor plate

Long 50-mm gun was able to hit KV-1 only at very small distance (100m), so additional armor was placed against 75-mm and 88-mm guns mostly.

And by the way: KV-1s ("s" means "skorostnoy" = "fast" in english) was a late and more light variant of KV-1 (less flank armor, less weight, more speed), so it has less chances to have additional armor (because the speed was a priority for this tank and additional armor = more weight = less speed). Also it has new casted gun tower, that was not able to get additional armor at all (old welded tower is better in that point).

[Migalex]

ok, i guess u anser me, thanks, but than, IS2 his no big obstacle than. And why wen a tank in mow is with a angle, like tiger (Horinzotal, u know put a tank a bit inclinated, sorry my english) that does not happen?
Well anyways, thxs for all the info Mihsan.
Another questions, What countrys used that most?
Russians used in T-34? ( Oh and by the way, T-34s hull wasn t increased armor, but theres some info that says that T-34/85 was increase the sloppness of 35 degrees to 30. Only the Turrets armor were changed)
Did Americans use? Because a M-10 tank destroyed had to hit the turret or the machinegun ball to be able destroy panther at front.
Again, There should be more types of ammo in game for this dont happen, because all tanks that happens.

[Mihsan]

ok, i guess u anser me, thanks, but than, IS2 his no big obstacle than. And why wen a tank in mow is with a angle, like tiger (Horinzotal, u know put a tank a bit inclinated, sorry my english) that does not happen?

What? :wilting:


Another questions, What countrys used that most?

As I know in the end of war all the countries used such shells as the main AP ammo, so the questions about russians and US are pointless :P

[Migalex]

Sherman 75mm gun and Russian 76mm gun can t penetrate panthers front armor at any distance, maybe because the low calibre?
And, I was meant, the Tiger I does not have slopped armor, so, you in game, just make your target be at 10-11 ocloak. But forget about it

[Rafo]

The 75mm of Sherman and the 76 of Russians can't penetrate because they have too low muzzle velocity, not caliber. Just look at panther, 75mm with very long barrel and high muzzle velocity... it owns the Tiger I's 88mm.

[Blub0r2k]

if you ask me, the amor system is totally worhless atm in beta (i dont think it will be different in final)

panther? undestroyable through front, even 122mm ond front does nothing, 100 ? even when 160mm displayed it bounces off , 85mm russian is totally worthless, bounces of on 70m from wirbelwind front.