Balance Problems

[Beacon]

Now, I've been playing for a few days, and it's great fun, but I've come across some serious balance issues you might want to fix.

Firstly, almost every tank is destroyed WAY too easily. A single shot from basically anything, will destroy a tank's hull or kill all the crew inside, or set it on fire, or whatever. Tanks are too weak.

Second, the German's are too OP. I played against two guys playing as Germany, and myself and a friend as Brits. ANY tank we sent in, would be destroyed by the Hetzer in one shot. The hetzer is crazily overpowered in the arms department.

I would seriously take a look at your balancing issues :)

- Beacon

[Jadefox]

Hey

I can´t agree with this :) . In my opinion, the armor/penetration system is just as fine as it is. In some situations, tanks are a real pain to take out.

I encountered several situations were it went like: Ok , there is a T34/76. Engage it with my Panzer III at maximum Range. All shells bounced off. Or another situation were one KV1 wrecked havok and all the shells from me and my teammate just bounced off. Only after the KV destroyed several of my Tanks, I finally forced him to retreat after he got hit by my Nashorn at extreme range(which incredibly bounced off too 8O *lucky guy*). On the other side I penetrated the frontal armor of a KV1 with an 17 Pounder at medium to long range.

The system is incredible in my opinion :).

[Latdonine]

Well if you just send tanks in as Brits and your enemy is Germany your tanks will be history soon :D Germans aren't overpowered. You just need a better tactique against them ;)

Like go for the rear none can stand it(unless they see you) and use scouts and arty. Or just rush with huge amount of forces, They can't get them all or can they? :lol:

[Jadefox]

Yeah

Cromwells are cheap , have decent armor and their gun is powerful (enough for medium german tanks). I you want real thick armor, get the Churchill. In one of my games , one damaged Churchill blocked the road for the whole round and ate every round they fired (russian 57mm to 85mm). 17 Pounders are a good way to keep heavy tanks away. They have extreme range and some serious penetration power :realbig: .

[Beacon]

I'm telling you, the Hetzer is just overpowered. Hit after hit bounced off it's armour, and every single round it fired blew up every type of tank I had.

[Velodrom]

As what comes to realism, the German army was way ahead of the allied forces in tank develpment during the early years of ww2. IF such imbalance exists I think it's a great feature to simulate the german superiority. You just can't send one medium allied tank into a head to head battle with a german tank imagining of a victory.

[Beacon]

Ok, well forget the tank problems then.


You can't tell me that one AT grenade will completely destroy a King Tiger, with a single throw. Or a Tiger I. Or most of them for that matter, which is exactly what just happened.

[Rafo]

YOU people fail. (not all of you ofcourse xD )
MOW calculates angle on armour, thus u must rotate ur tank a little so ur at an angle to your enemy and hopefully his shots will ricochet and not penetrate since you gained some armour do to the angle.
If you point your tank at the enemy perpendicular, u will have less armor than if u had angled it a bit, try playing red orchestra, it has very cool angle system.
Just because ur tanks get blow apart too easily doesnt mean they are unbalanced... you can easily own a hetzer if u put some angle and aim at the edges, gun or tracks.
Mow is totally different from fow :)

[Beacon]

I completely understand that concept, and use it to full effect in my matches.

[Latdonine]

Ok, well forget the tank problems then.


You can't tell me that one AT grenade will completely destroy a King Tiger, with a single throw. Or a Tiger I. Or most of them for that matter, which is exactly what just happened.
well you can if you got enough explosives on the at nade and hit the engine :ouch:

[Beacon]

What? Engines don't just explode when you hit them with something. Engines aren't really even flammable or anything. It's the fuel that does the exploding. Sure, if you hit the gas tanks on the back of the tiger or whatever with something like that, maybe it will blow the tracks off and do some damage, but even that isn't going to turn it into a fireball and shoot it into the sky.

And anyway, my point was just about normal AT grenades hitting the roof of a tank. I can understand a little tankette blowing up like thta, but a friggin' King Tiger?

[SS-Kommando]

What? Engines don't just explode when you hit them with something. Engines aren't really even flammable or anything. It's the fuel that does the exploding. Sure, if you hit the gas tanks on the back of the tiger or whatever with something like that, maybe it will blow the tracks off and do some damage, but even that isn't going to turn it into a fireball and shoot it into the sky.

And anyway, my point was just about normal AT grenades hitting the roof of a tank. I can understand a little tankette blowing up like thta, but a friggin' King Tiger?

The top hull armor of the King Tiger's is only 40mm thick, and 25mm for the Tiger I. So an AT grenade should be able to destroy both of them.

/SS-Kommando

[Beacon]

40mm is still not bad armour. Sure, for a tank round, it's ****e, but a measly little grenade? Come on.

At least don't make it blow the whole bloody tank up.

[pedro0930]

Early AT-grenade such as the British No. 68 AT Grenade is capable to penetrating 50mm of armor. However, it shouldn't blow up a tank if it hits to top of the turret (maybe kill the crew, maybe) since ammunition and fuel are usually stored on the lower part of the hull.

I don't know the detail about this beta, but in beta1, I usually use infantry and AT-guns as my main force, maybe a Cromwell or two for flanking during stand-off when playing against German with Allies The pricing of a few units may be questionable (such as Tiger compares to Panther and Pershing) but the game is not that unbalance (German is perhaps, very slightly stronger than other factions)

[SS-Kommando]

40mm is still not bad armour. Sure, for a tank round, it's ****e, but a measly little grenade? Come on.

Anti-tank grenades actually have good armor penetration, and the top and bottom of tanks are the most vulnerable parts. The Soviet RPG-43 had a penetration of ~75mm at a 90 degree angle for instance, which is more than enough to neutralize a King Tiger if hitting its top.


At least don't make it blow the whole bloody tank up.

I can agree that the explosion effect is exaggarated.

/SS-Kommando

[alka]

The Hetzer is not OP. Just don't try to attack the front, the sloped armor takes a lot of beating.
Keep it busy with inf and flank it with a AT gun/tank or aim for the tracks.
I had the same problem with an ISU-152. It was behind a small height and constantly owned everything I threw at it. Shot the tracks, sent a tank to flank it and :baseball: .

[Hollowpoint9mm]

The Hetzer is not OP. Just don't try to attack the front, the sloped armor takes a lot of beating.
Keep it busy with inf and flank it with a AT gun/tank or aim for the tracks.
I had the same problem with an ISU-152. It was behind a small height and constantly owned everything I threw at it. Shot the tracks, sent a tank to flank it and :baseball: .


That's another thing I have noticed about this game, the 50 cal on the American tanks can de-track any thing instantly and it will destroy the main gun on tanks in 2-3 shots instantly. It can also kill any light tank such as a Puma, BA-11 (Think its the BA-11, The Armored Car with the 45mm gun on it), T-26, T-70, Panzer II, also I found it interesting that you can kill the M-36 Slugger with it...

[alka]

The Hetzer is not OP. Just don't try to attack the front, the sloped armor takes a lot of beating.
Keep it busy with inf and flank it with a AT gun/tank or aim for the tracks.
I had the same problem with an ISU-152. It was behind a small height and constantly owned everything I threw at it. Shot the tracks, sent a tank to flank it and :baseball: .


That's another thing I have noticed about this game, the 50 cal on the American tanks can de-track any thing instantly and it will destroy the main gun on tanks in 2-3 shots instantly. It can also kill any light tank such as a Puma, BA-11 (Think its the BA-11, The Armored Car with the 45mm gun on it), T-26, T-70, Panzer II, also I found it interesting that you can kill the M-36 Slugger with it...

That's right. I also noticed the effect of heavy MGs. It isn't unrealistic that these bullets penetrate this certain amount of armor like all the vehicles you mentioned are equipped with. But for the sake of balance, I agree with you, this happens too fast. Notice: The M-36 Slugger is a "hit-and-run"-tankdestroyer, not to be used for frontal assaults.

[pedro0930]

But the M36 is still quite heavily armored (Allies standard here) at the front and a 50cal shouldn't be able to destroy it at all. Heavy MGs needs to be tone down...

[SS-Kommando]

But the M36 is still quite heavily armored (Allies standard here) at the front and a 50cal shouldn't be able to destroy it at all. Heavy MGs needs to be tone down...

While the M36 was heavily armed, it was not heavily armoured. Infact, its upper frontal armor was on 66mm thick (counting its slope), which is less than the Sherman's 89mms. It was meant to kill enemy tanks at a distance, not to be used in assaults. Here you can find more info about it: http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/al ... iclesX=186 (http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/all_vehicles_adv.php?op=getvehicles&vehiclesX=186)

/SS-Kommando

[SS-Kommando]

The Hetzer is not OP. Just don't try to attack the front, the sloped armor takes a lot of beating.
Keep it busy with inf and flank it with a AT gun/tank or aim for the tracks.
I had the same problem with an ISU-152. It was behind a small height and constantly owned everything I threw at it. Shot the tracks, sent a tank to flank it and :baseball: .


That's another thing I have noticed about this game, the 50 cal on the American tanks can de-track any thing instantly and it will destroy the main gun on tanks in 2-3 shots instantly. It can also kill any light tank such as a Puma, BA-11 (Think its the BA-11, The Armored Car with the 45mm gun on it), T-26, T-70, Panzer II, also I found it interesting that you can kill the M-36 Slugger with it...

The .50 cal is a strong gun with good armour penetration after all, and since it is placed on the top of the tank, it is able to aim for the enemy tanks' hull top, which is one of the most vulnerable areas, where the armour thickness is usually just 10-25mm thick.

I think the best and most realistic solution would be to make it so not all American tanks have machineguns mounted ontop of them; after all, far from all tanks had AA machineguns mounted in WW2.

/SS-Kommando

[reinhart]

I think that the armor and ballistics are are very appropriate, it obvious that the Germans had superior armor. At the same time the allies (the U.S in particular) had superior resources and could produce far more vehicles than the Germans. Maybe allied armor should be extremely cheap so that many units could be produced. They should also produce fewer points per kill for their opponent. This would produce a more realistic environment. German players would have a few superior tanks to face a larger and less mechanically advanced opponent.

[SS-Kommando]

I think that the armor and ballistics are are very appropriate, it obvious that the Germans had superior armor. At the same time the allies (the U.S in particular) had superior resources and could produce far more vehicles than the Germans. Maybe allied armor should be extremely cheap so that many units could be produced. They should also produce fewer points per kill for their opponent. This would produce a more realistic environment. German players would have a few superior tanks to face a larger and less mechanically advanced opponent.

Well-written. I agree completely. That was the way it played out in reality of course. From what I heard so far about MoW, it seems to be like this luckily.

/SS-Kommando

[Doink9731]

These issues can be addressed with a change of tactics and not a change to the game.

[Hartmann]

USA can't compete at all mid/late game. All their stuff is so immensely expensive for what it can actually do. The only thing they can rely on is ambush tactics, the 76mm is a good gun but the tanks it comes on don't have any armor to speak of. Lots of their units need price cuts.

[whodunnit]

at least bazooka jeep rocks, serisouly , killed 3 tanks or s owith one flanking run.

about the tank armour, it is appropriate, dont expect your tanks to be able to slug it out point blank and take shots, if you want to have decent surviveability you have to be about 100 meters away. i think this is a misconception caused by other computer games, the short ranges of tank battles, i mean, even MOW is scaled down.